Posts by Cold Creek Swimmer

4

Anyone from Phoenix?

by Cold Creek Swimmer in

jw
friends

i am currently working a long way from home in phoenix.

it would sure be nice to meet some exdubs while i am down here.

please send me a pm if there is anyone interested in meeting an oregon ex-dub.. ccs.

Thanks for the response. I am not looking for anything more than just to meet some people who understand what it was like. After a lifetime of living in a box, it is hard to find friends who understand the whole situation. I am working here in Phoenix before my family and I move down. I want to take advantage of the fact that I am away from my still-dub wife and am able to associate with other ex-dubs without having to make excuses for my absence. I am more than willing to send someone my e-mail if they want to go get a bite to eat some evening.

CCS

4

Anyone from Phoenix?

by Cold Creek Swimmer in

jw
friends

i am currently working a long way from home in phoenix.

it would sure be nice to meet some exdubs while i am down here.

please send me a pm if there is anyone interested in meeting an oregon ex-dub.. ccs.

Cold Creek Swimmer

I am currently working a long way from home in Phoenix. It would sure be nice to meet some exdubs while I am down here. Please send me a PM if there is anyone interested in meeting an Oregon Ex-dub.

CCS

51

Was There Any Watchtower Interpretation That You Never Quite Understood?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i knew what the watchtower taught regarding the "faithful & discreet slave class" but how they could ever suggest that "domestics" were "individual members" of the anointed that were given food to the other anointed ones, yet they specifically were not members of the governing body, but the governing body represented the group that would take the lead in feeding others, was beyond me!

the whole interpretation of the fds doctrine is ridiculous!.

were there certain things that puzzled you as to how the watchtower could come up with a particular view?

Cold Creek Swimmer

I was given a talk assignment where the scriptures regarding the 1,260 days and the 2,520 days pointed to a discourse given at an assembly in 1919. I went to the house of an elder in another hall and asked him if we really believed that a bible prophecy pointed to an assembly part. He hemmed and hawed and said that that is what the FDS teaches. He sidestepped whether or not he agreed with the teaching. I didn't. I told him it was ludicrous and I didn't know how I was supposed to say that from the platform with a straight face. Fortunately for me, the meeting was cancelled that night because the roads got very icy.

CCS

79

Do you expect the man in the marriage to be strong.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

my mother-in-law had surgery recently and when ever she does go through medical issues, it brings up something i wonder about.

you see, i think the man or husband, in the relationship needs to be strong at those moments.

to be the person who people can look to for updated information, perhaps to be the pillar of strength to keep everyone calm in a rough situation and so on.

Cold Creek Swimmer

I bet BFD, saywhat29, and the other great gay men here could show him what it means to be respected by a man

That's good stuff, Eclipse. ROFLMAO.

CCS

79

Do you expect the man in the marriage to be strong.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

my mother-in-law had surgery recently and when ever she does go through medical issues, it brings up something i wonder about.

you see, i think the man or husband, in the relationship needs to be strong at those moments.

to be the person who people can look to for updated information, perhaps to be the pillar of strength to keep everyone calm in a rough situation and so on.

Cold Creek Swimmer

Strength in a man is very attractive, if its true strength, and not the I AM MAN< ME BOSS mentality often associated with being a strong male rolemodel.

I AM MAN! I AM the BOSS. Thank God my wife is as strong-willed as she is. As far as I am concerned, a man has got to suck it up and get it done-regardless of the situation. And yes, a man has also got to be vulnerable in front of his wife. The wife needs to feel that the man can handle the crisis whatever it is and be the pillar of strength. How could a woman respect anything less? If there is a BRIEF period of time after the crisis when the man needs a break, or shows some real emotion, that is fine. Humanity is a necessity for all of us. It's the bloke who wets his pants when his wife cuts her finger that is going to continue to fail in life.

If my wife wasn't who she is, I would not be able to respect her. It is the woman who can control much of the dynamics in the marriage just by showing some strength of character. But it is also the woman who can beat a man down by never letting up. A man has got to be a man and let his balls drop so he can gain the respect of his wife. Poor is the marriage where the man gives up and puts on a dress. Not all women or marriages are this way-for some it seems that there is not much work to their getting along. But I firmly believe that in these relationships the wife has decided not to make an issue of most things until it is something really important to her. I'd bet the real strength in the marriage lies with her and things go well for the both of them because she allows him to believe he is running the show.

I've been married for almost 20 years. Not an easy accomplishment given some of my past choices. My wife's strength of character is the only reason we have made it this far. I was always strong-willed, but made poor decisions. When I pulled my head out I was suddenly able to see what an idiot I had been and get back on track. Yes, I am MAN, but only with my wife's love and support. And yes, she relies on me and trusts me to make the tough call in the tough situations.

CCS

54

If Your Spouse Told The Elders On U, Is That a Marital or Religious Problem

by minimus in

jw
friends

if a faithful devout jw saw her husband on a board like this or reading "apostate" literature, if she was so disturbed by her husband's actions and the husband justified himself, would you think that if she told the elders because she was truly concerned that her mate was going to leave "the truth" and ultimately not make it into the "new system", --------that this was simply a marital issue-----not a religious one?.

your opinions please..

Cold Creek Swimmer

"Dubylon"....very clever!

Thanks, Minimus.

I believe that after learning about cognitive dissonance on this forum, that a couple who puts each other above dublaw, has got to be living in the land of cognitve dissonance to beable to live like this in the face of all the "timely counsel" to not cover over another's sins. This is probably the only time that cognitive dissonance is a good thing.

CCS

54

If Your Spouse Told The Elders On U, Is That a Marital or Religious Problem

by minimus in

jw
friends

if a faithful devout jw saw her husband on a board like this or reading "apostate" literature, if she was so disturbed by her husband's actions and the husband justified himself, would you think that if she told the elders because she was truly concerned that her mate was going to leave "the truth" and ultimately not make it into the "new system", --------that this was simply a marital issue-----not a religious one?.

your opinions please..

Cold Creek Swimmer

Great question! This is something that took me a long time to wrap my head around. It was not until I had some deep conversations with my best friend that I understood how the dub marriage works. I think the issue in question is a religious and marital issue.

Let me say why, please. When a couple gets married, they are told that marriage is like a rope with three cords: Husband, Wife and God. What is not mentioned is that those three are great together until someone commits "gross wrongdoing". That is the kicker. If your spouse does this, then you go to the "Brothers" if your spouse won't. I bougth into this. My wife still does-to some extent. That is a huge problem because your are asked to put the society above your marriage in the guise of displeasing God if you cover over another's sin. Hogwash based on inept reasoning.

2 of my closest friends have just recently begun to realize that they are not dubs anymore. I have to say that my giving the wife CoC was a big help. But that is another success story on another thread that I'll start another time. Anyway, during our discussions the wife told me that she has never thought that she would narc on her husband for anything considered wrong by others. She thought that all dub marriages were like that until recently. She realized that her thinking was "wrong" by Dub standards. The husband feels as does she. It was this combined with several other things that moved them away from dubs and into reality.

That story only serves to make my long-winded point. Witnesses are not allowed to have a real marriage because there is always the idea in the back of each mate's mind that if they say what they think, the elders will be called to fix a problem. Only a very few fortunate ones get past this and don't feel this way. How can you be truly "One" in marriage when you have to guard your thoughts and ideas even from your spouse? It is impossible unless you go against the very core of dub teaching. Those that are lucky enough to somehow avoid this process seem to be the ones that are able to get out of Dubylon together and happily. I only hope that I can eventually help my wife to get to where I am so we can live together as one without the constant cloud of dubism hanging over our heads. I would really love to talk with her about reality, instead of avoiding the whale in the middle of our bed.

CCS

284

NAME JUST ONE thing....ONE THING...revealed by God....

by Terry in

somebody is always insisting they have an invisible and mysterious source of divine information and selling it like hotcakes and syrup.

but, why are you still buying?

when will you ever learn that this is a scam among many scams.

Cold Creek Swimmer

Bebu,

I will agree that your answer is thought-provoking, but it still does not address the basic question. You say that atheists want a framework in which to prove an existence. How else is this to be done? You give your answer, as do many theists, with the framework that "It is up to us to figure out the reason God does things." Your answer, while making perfect sense to you, is based in the existential reasoning tat only allows for the existence of a god. Until you can reason with the idea that there may not be a god, or without the idea that god can accomplish all things, then there is no conversation with a theist.

An atheist is accepting of the idea that there may be a god, if and when someone can show hard evidence. An atheist does not automatically assume that a theist is wrong. Too bad a theist cannot look beyond the idea that there may not be a god. When one can open their mind to that possibility, then and only then can a real discussion ensue. At that point one could understand the obvious reasons as to why there may not be a god-a different point of view, as it were.

CCS

284

NAME JUST ONE thing....ONE THING...revealed by God....

by Terry in

somebody is always insisting they have an invisible and mysterious source of divine information and selling it like hotcakes and syrup.

but, why are you still buying?

when will you ever learn that this is a scam among many scams.

Cold Creek Swimmer

No , you haven't understood a single thing I wrote! But I understand why not, and I'm not surprised. You can only compare this to the most likely of what you know.

If I could re-create it, I would. I've never been able to "make" such an encounter happen, either the first or the last time (over 20 years ago, btw), ever . BUT they left me left realizing that a) God truly sees me and is with me forever, and b) God loves me passionately. These are my backbone. I spot sly reminders of them from time to time, but not as bare as before. There is no simple reason for them then, nor their absence since. All I know is, God took hold of me then and the impression has endured.

bebu

Bebu,

Please explain how this as anything to do with the topic and proving that the bible writers could only have received some of their info from God. The "feeling" of God's love in your life only proves that YOU are sure that there is a god. It provides absolutely no cold hard facts that anyone else can look at and say "Hey, you have a good point. I'll reconsider my position." I believe that this is what Terry is looking for. A reason to believe beyond the idea of faith in the invisible and unseen "presence" that most call "GOD".

Reverse engineering with the idea that "this and that are so complex only a god could have created them" does not prove anything. Take, for example, a bucket of toothpicks. Lift the bucket in the air and turn it upside down. Make a note of their exact location. Put all 1000 toothpicks back in the bucket. Repeat process. Tell me how long until the first drop is duplicated. The "complex" order that they fell into, does not speak of a creator. It can only be described in those terms if you reverse engineer the order that they landed. "The locations of these tooth picks are so complex that someone must have placed them like this. This could never have happened randomly. I could do this for a thousand years and never come up with this result."

Get my drift? The odds that during conception all of the necessary genes and enzymes and cells came together to make up your body specifically are astronomically against it ever happening-but it did. Again, please give a logical item that proves these bible writers could not have known that about which they wrote. A feeling of love does not count, as it is an emotion that varies from person to person.

CCS

33

QFR Regarding How The "Slave" Is "Discreet"

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was reading this nonsense at my mom's house yesterday and when i agreed with one of the definitions for "discreet" from the article, i said, "how could anyone think they were ever discreet when they got everything wrong from russell's day until now?

were they discreet when they said because the end is so close you shouldn't get married, have children and make families??

is that "discreet" or just the opposite???

Cold Creek Swimmer

They use the imperfection as an excuse for their failures, telling people to give up their lives because Armageddon is tomorrow or next year. And then they blame the people when it fails and they end up in a pickle because of having followed the advice. Imperfection.

This is an example of circular reasoning. "We are God's mouthpiece on earth. What we say is God's word. We have just received new light that has given us an adjustment in our thinking. Because we are imperfect, we have now realized that this new light has lead us to send these revisions for the upcoming study in the Revelation book."

What most witnesses don't see is that the FDS cannot have it both ways. Either what they say is God's word, or it is not. If it is God's word as directed by the Holy Spirit, then what they are implying is that the Spirit was wrong. If they are imperfect men who make mistakes, then they were wrong in their understanding. It basically boils down to them IMPLYING that God made a mistake. Really, that is what they are saying. If their understanding changes and the previous understanding was from God, then God changed his mind. There is no other way to look at their reasoning.

How many of you ever asked yourselves why God changed his mind again? I never did. I bought into the "New Light" theory wholeheartedly. It was not until I really started to think about things, and "meditate" on things that I realized what was being said. I asked my elder father this recently. He went ballistic and responded with the time honored argument "You are an APOSTATE!" That, of course, is the best way to prove anyone wrong in the face of logical reasoning.

2500 years since the bible was written and not any changes as far as ideas are concerned, except for the basic translation issues. 150 years of Watchtower and if you said to the elders that you believed things the way Russell or Rutherford did, you would be kicked out for apostasy. These men claimed to be God's voice as well. So, I guess God is an apostate too, according to the FDS.

CCS